Moving the needle...

Part two of our conversation with Brandon Rosenthal touches on the youth sports culture, advice for beginning coaches, the media in our sport and the explanation of the sign hanging in his office.

A Difficult Youth Sports Culture

The parent thing is big with helicopter parents and what not. We’re very up front with them and send them a letter and tell them what to expect and also to ask them to help us. I got this from Mike Heber and I think it’s beautiful; they’re part of trying to win a championship too. Their roles are different but they’re going to get phone calls and we ask the parents to tell their daughter that this is exactly what this is about and you need to trust and keep going instead of them trying to fix it. I think that’s probably the biggest thing, that instant gratification of this process to figure it out and get better. Even now, as I’ve got an 11 year old and a 7 year old and my son is all into sports, I say there’s two different kinds of teams in youth sports. There’s a t shirt team and a trophy team. The trophy team is we want ONLY the best kids and we’re out there to win and if we can’t win then we’re doing something wrong. A t shirt team is we want the kids to enjoy it. If they win great and if they lose they learn something. So I want my son on t shirt teams. There’s plenty of time for the other.




It’s going in the wrong direction. If you look at what’s happening with travel basketball for example, different factors come into play with that but ultimately it just comes down to money. I think education of coaches is probably the biggest thing. Right now we’re in a tough spot at a rate where we don’t have enough quality coaches. When I say that, in basketball, everybody played basketball, everybody learned at some level. Now all of a sudden you’ve got Parents coaching and we’re just coming into the age where parents played volleyball growing up. So it’s great because they’re teaching their kids and teaching kids the proper ways but we don’t have that long history like basketball.

Youth sports are scary right now. It’s different from when you were a kid and when I was a kid. Parents are at every practice. They’re dissecting everything. They have video now. When we look at a recruit, we ask questions about Mom and Dad, we talk to Mom and Dad. We try in the recruiting process to vet out a lot of that stuff and it’s tough. We’re in a culture right now where we have to keep up with the Jones’. We often times find ourselves asking is this what’s best for us or is this what’s best for everybody else. So we slow down and pump the brakes and find this is not what’s best for us so let’s not go in this direction.

Volleyball NOT Being about Volleyball

I’m very lucky with the culture of the University here. One of my favorite things is that the University really promotes these mission trips. Quite honestly I had never done one but I’d heard of people doing them. So four years ago we took our first mission trip to Rio de Janeiro. I was able to travel abroad through Pepperdine and post Pepperdine and boy, the learning process. I think it’s interesting now, with kids having MORE resources, they actually travel less abroad. It’s crazy to me. So it was great to make a trip happen in college. Travelling to me is important and if I can provide an opportunity for the girls to do that, I really wanted them to be blown away. So when we talked about where could we go, I don’t know how Rio came about but there was some people in the University that were from Brazil and they have contacts so it was welcomed. It wasn’t like how are we going to make this happen, it was alright, we’re going! And then here are the steps to make this happen.

At Lipscomb, every year there are 55 mission trips worldwide. The mission opportunities are a huge piece and you’re talking everywhere, from Honduras to Ethiopia to Charlotte and downtown Atlanta and inner city New York. It’s crazy to think about what these kids are getting to see. For me, it just went hand in hand with what we were trying to do. There’s so much to learn from a book but there’s so much more to learn when you’re out there making it happen. We’re lucky; we’re just about to embark this next May to Malawi, Africa. Lipscomb already has a connection with this orphanage we’re going to be working with. We’re so blessed and often times we complain about what we don’t have and what we need and then all of a sudden we go see what the rest of the world is doing and for us, it was life changing for the girls that went on the trip. It was life changing for me! I was very nervous and rightfully so. You’re in charge of 12 to 15 different people and you’re travelling abroad and it’s nerve racking but it taught me a lot.

This University has a lot of connections. The legendary men’s basketball coach Don Meyer, he believed in a lot of the same things I did. One of his big rules was pick up trash and leave the place better than you left it. It’s so simple. So to be at a school where that is celebrated is nice. I tell our girls I want our locker room to look nice and that was before I knew about Don Meyer. I feel like I’m in the perfect spot.

When I say it’s not about volleyball it’s not because kids have to learn about life. One of our seniors who just graduated in May justwrote a blog about her next step and the struggle that she’s going through right now especially being an athlete and she was given all these things and told what time to be somewhere and now real life is happening. There are some really interesting things that our girls are doing. She writes about the time she had here was the time of her life and now she’s being challenged with that next stage. I sent her a quick message just yesterday after I read her blog and just said, “Trust your training and trust your heart.” There’s this big fear and I get it. I went through it, you went through it but all of the stuff we did through college is applicable to what we should be doing in life. I’m hoping that they can take those lessons. I truly believe that all that stuff helps us win Championships.

I say all the time when we deserve to win we will win and when we don’t deserve it, more than likely it’s not going to happen. Since 2007 when we got into our first championship, we’ve been in the Championship match 8 of the last 9 years. We haven’t won all of them and there’s been some heart breakers but looking back on it I think they were all for a reason. As we’ve had a ton of success, we’re still fighting and in the NCAA tournament, we haven’t won a first round match and our girls are anxious so I am anxious for that to happen. We can’t just rely on the fact that we get to the tournament, we have to do something and we know it. One of the questions people ask is hey, it’s great you’ve gotten this program to this point, and it is but I want more and they want more. The University and the administration have done an unbelievable job of supporting that and seeing the vision.

On the NCAA Tournament

I’ll say this; I think it’s moving in the right direction. Kristin Fasbender who is the Director of Championships and Alliances for the NCAA, and I have been on a couple of committees and I’ve been able to talk to her and they’re hearing us. Is it happening fast enough, no. But that’s the world that coaches live in; we want it to happen now. I think we have to take a look at what’s happening. My issue is we really bust our butts for 4 and a half or five months to get to the tournament is totally fair. But it comes down to are we 380 miles from somebody versus 450 miles. If we’re 450 miles away from somebody we have to fly and if we’re 380 miles we have to drive. It has nothing to do with what we’ve done for the season. It has to do with the regionalization of the tournament. I get that part; we don’t want teams flying coast to coast. That’s hard on everybody. But at the same time, what’s fair to make the best tournament? We’re a mid major team that is really knocking on the door so we’re not just interested in being in the tournament. Last year was a tough year because both us and Belmont who is literally two miles down the same road were in the tournament. We had beaten Belmont twice during the regular season. Louisville is hosting and UCLA is hosting. We’re 50 in the RPI and Belmont is 165 in the RPI. UCLA is 15 in the RPI and Louisville is 16. In theory, just by numbers alone, you would think Lipscomb goes to Louisville because they’re higher ranked and Belmont goes to UCLA. And it happened vice versa and it was a tough trip for us. Looking back on it I don’t know if I did a great job because I was trying to manage all of that and manage our team. It was a great experience but we weren’t there for the experience. We’d really busted our butts to have that first round match against Louisville and I say Louisville but I don’t know what the difference would have been and that’s not a knock on Louisville but that was hard on me. I’ll say this, the NCAA was gracious enough to listen to me and we talked on a conference call after and I do think changes are coming. I think there was an anomaly with two schools that were two miles apart that kind of opened their eyes and maybe made them think we have to look at this just a little bit deeper. I say that but really what’s on the horizon is the NIT. I talked with Sean Hardy of Triple Crown Sports and I think the NIT is going to happen for Women’s volleyball in 2017 and a full 64 team tournament, so it’s exciting.

Women’s basketball has had this for quite some time because of Men’s basketball having it, I think women’s volleyball is starting to earn it a little bit more because of the sport, the sheer numbers of it you can’t deny. I was shocked looking at participation numbers in high school and I knew women’s basketball would be number one but women’s volleyball was only 3000 athletes behind. To me, that was validation of what I’d been saying before. Women’s basketball, the game, is not what it used to be and it’s changing and they’re in this tough transition period. It’s not just me saying it, Geno (U. Conn Women's Coach Auriemma) is saying it, the Big 12 coach who was saying they needed to practice more; she’s saying it. There are a lot of people saying it and women’s volleyball is doing nothing but continuing to climb. I think it’s our responsibility to take advantage of that.

Volleyball and the Media- Selling Our Sport

The community continues to grow. There continues to be more checks and balances and that’s probably what it needs. You talk about the ranking system: it’s nice we have a coach’s poll. We’ve already explained that the coach’s poll is skewed. And then you have the RPI and people hate that. What I’ve said is we need to do a media poll. Who’s going to do it? Well, you need four or five media people and that will continue to grow and it’s not for anything other than checks and balances, competition. Then it becomes one of those things where, why is this team #5 in this poll and #25 in this poll. What is going on? And there is some transparency. I think the AVCA is doing a good job with the coach’s poll: hey, here’s what everybody voted. So every week you can see who voted for what. So if you have the balls to call somebody out then do it. People talk about volley talk. Volley talk is great for volleyball. They’re silly if they think otherwise. All these others sports, football- do you know how many blogs there are about football? We have one! Maybe there are two but Volley talk is great because I think people are asking questions and it’s about what people are thinking and it gets us talking.

I think we have a ton of room to grow. The national teams are a big portion of that. This is a tough year because of Rio and it’s an Olympic year but I don’t think we do enough to put our National teams at the spots where everybody is. I’ve been to the last 14, 15 Junior Nationals and we do barely enough. We might send an Olympian there to sign some autographs but if we really want it, the team is there and they’re playing and the girls are exposed to the next level. I would venture to say that less than 5% of the girls playing club know our Olympians. I also think it’s a great opportunity and we have to stop saying how sad it is and let’s do something about it.

I think the NCAA and the AVCA are doing some great stuff. Kathy DeBoer really built sand volleyball championship and now look at it. I went to it this year and it’s not stopping, it’s a runaway train. It’s here to stay and there’s plenty to bitch and complain about but it’s more opportunities for our girls to play and different girls, so what’s wrong with that? Ultimately it’s a different sport which I’m not going to say it’s the same sport but it’s volleyball. You can be a lover of the beach game and a hater of the indoor game and vice versa, it continues to grow and as it continues to grow, more money is being put into it, more advertising. So I do think there are certain things that are wrong with it.

I think volleyball was on the forefront of web streaming. They saw an opportunity for us being worried about wanting to be on National television, they really put their hooks into Big 12 TV and PAC 12 TV and they saw that opportunity there. So now, for us, a mid major team, we have ESPN 3 and we’re very fortunate but in 30 matches, I would say 24 of those matches are going to be on some sort of media outlet. So I think we have an obligation to continue to grow this. Media has completely changed, and I think for the better for us. People will watch games on iPads just as much as they’ll watch games on TV’s. Where as you had the semi finals and the finals on ESPN, that was it. Now all of a sudden, kids are almost going their whole career where every one of their matches is on some sort of media platform. I can remember just 4 or 5 years ago if we were on TV once, that was special. TV is different, it’s not the same. Kids don’t even watch TV, they’re watching Netflix. I think volleyball by some chance and forethought just said run with it. A lot of that was because we were up against basketball, up against football where as softball is in this sweet spot where there’s not a lot of programming and they’re able to get that. The tournament is growing. I think you’re starting to see teams growing and make moves. Kansas, even though they were a big school; that was a great story. Creighton and all these other teams, I think the competition is evening out. And that’s what makes the men’s basketball tournament so special is this Cinderella idea. Is it the best team at the end of the year? I don’t know; you could sit here and argue about that all day. Here’s what’s crazy, do you know how many teams have won an NCAA championship in Women’s volleyball, how many individual programs? It’s 10! In 30 plus years, that’s crazy to me; only 10. So I think there’s some of that on the horizon and I think that’s pretty cool. We’re able to recruit against bigger name teams because we’re on ESPN3 and it’s a cool thing.





Advice for Beginning Coaches

I listen to books when I run which people think is crazy but I blow through books. I try to run 4 to 5 miles a day so if a book is 6 hours, it’s basically a week and it’s done. I’ve really gotten into that in the last three years. I’ve always wanted to read but I never had time. I fall asleep reading. But I wanted to run and workout more and I stumbled on to audible.com. So right now, I’ve got three books going. There’s so much out there I can learn.

Don’t be afraid to ask questions. There’s not enough of that; asking questions, e mailing, calling, can I come by, can I come watch practice. I think in volleyball it’s just people are afraid, nervous when in reality I had to the do the same thing. I had to call Marv Dunphy. Now granted I knew Marv but these other coaches call and I really have tried to ask him poignant questions throughout my career: why do you do this, how do you do this? So I would say ask questions. If you call a coach and they don’t have time for whatever reason, don’t get jaded about it. Move to the next one. There are so many great coaches out there and I’ll take it a step further, just don’t stop at volleyball. (Holds up the book Legacy) This is a perfect example. This has nothing to do with volleyball and it has everything to do with volleyball. They’re like, do I need to know anything about rugby, how to play rugby and I was like no! I love sports so I’m drawn to any story that can move me so I’m scouring You Tube on a daily basis to be motivated and to find one more piece. I’ve got a thirst or a hunger for knowledge. I think a lot of people do but they’re nervous to venture outside their box.

I think one of our biggest challenges, and I don’t know that I know the answer to this, but when I went to go watch some men’s programs it was so great for Craig (Skinner, head coach at Kentucky) and we had a blast because we are driving all through Southern California. And it wasn’t just going to the practices as you can imagine, and driving in Southern California, there’s plenty of time to sit and talk in the car with nothing else going on. We’re bouncing ideas off of each other. So we’re leaving Irvine and saying, I can’t believe this happened. What did you think about that? I would love for us to do it a little bit more within women’s volleyball. I think probably the answer is spring and getting out. I’ve tried to. Joe Segula is a guy I’ve talked to many times and I say that I really want to get to see him do his thing. That’s what Joe’s all about. I think we’ve got to do that more. There’s going to be some coaches, but I think fewer, that don’t want to be a part of it. So be it but I think we’ve got to get out more. And it’s the same thing; we’ve got to get out more in the high schools and clubs. Our excuse all the time is we’re busy, and we are. But I think more often than not, you learn just as much as you do when you are teaching. That’s what I like.

On the Club System and USA Volleyball

Money is the root of some of the wrong direction of what we have in the clubs. The ironic part of club volleyball is everybody thinks it’s about scholarships at the collegiate level and everything shows that’s it’s 1%. Every year, 1% get collegiate scholarships to division I, 1% get scholarships to division II. It’s just mind boggling because we’re talking about 1%. I mean that’s nothing. I think all of us need to step back and look at it

So the education of coaches is a big issue in our sport. I don’t know how we do it. I think soccer does some really good stuff with their CAP stuff. Now, there is no incentive to be CAP I, CAP II, CAP III. I think it’s nice, they do a great job. Soccer has their licenses; I think it’s like AB. Those mean something. The coaches that have those licenses get paid more and that’s it. You aren’t getting paid the highest level without the highest licenses. We probably need to look at that. I don’t know if it’s too far gone but it’s something I’ve always been intrigued by, the education part of it. I think that there’s a responsibility of college coaches to do more clinics, but again the time factor. And maybe more than the time factor is the production.

I think USA Volleyball has a responsibility and they’re in an interesting spot too with what’s going to happen after Doug (USAV CEO Beal) retires. USA Volleyball from the youth side has just blown up and everything from the qualifiers to High Performance Programs to High Performance teams. It’ll be interesting because people are understanding the dollars that are going into it. I think the JVA movement was good, and I think it stalled for a second but I think it’s picking back up. It will be interesting to see if JVA can catch on west because I think there’s some opportunity. I’m not saying anything about USA Volleyball, I just think when you have competition, you have to step back and say are we doing things right?

I think there needs to be more transparency within the clubs, within USA Volleyball. Issues like ‘stay to play.’ Stay to play is an initiative where if you’re in the national championship or other qualifiers they have the means to work hotel deals. Well that’s great and I think everybody understands that but the back side of it is those people are also getting kick backs. So there’s some struggle with that because I don’t think that’s completely transparent. I would never want to hold anyone back from earning a living, I just think that it’s getting to the point where when enough is enough without getting ugly. I think the getting ugly part is what travel basketball has gotten to. And you know what, travel baseball is probably the same way, soccer is the same thing. I just think the amount of money in basketball exceeds everyone else. We’re all heading in that direction.

On the Sign Hanging In His Office

Every year we have a mantra if you will. I read a book called Insanely Simple. It’s about the rise of Apple, Steve Jobs and things like that. It talked about the crazy ones. The crazy ones, if you remember the Apple commercials, when you start to read it, for us, it’s exactly who we were. We’re the misfits, the rebels, the trouble makers, the ones that see things differently. I don’t want to be the same, we want to be distinctly different: we say that. I think we do things differently; we train differently, we recruit differently, we put emphasis on different things, the culture and the chemistry.




I love the last line; Because people are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. When I took over we were 315 out of 330 in the RPI and I said to Steve Potts Our Athletic Director (who is now the AD at Pepperdine) in 5 years we’ll win a championship. Steve said, look Brandon, let’s just have a team and compete and then in our fifth year we won a championship. So we said okay, now we need to be the top 150 and we weren’t there yet. So that was the move. Then we said if we really want to make some noise, we have to be in the top 100, come on! We did that and then obviously 75 and then 50 and people said, that’s great but you’re a one big conference. I asked why is that possible. If you’re good enough and by some chance you lose in your conference tournament, isn’t it the same for me as it is for everybody? No, it’s different. It didn’t make sense so I had to learn about the RPI and how important it was. Unfortunately for us in 2014 we lost in the Championship but we were in the 30’s in the RPI and we were given our first at large bit into the tournament. I still think we can make it to the Sweet 16 and people say were crazy, and I’m okay with that. I’m always searching books and videos. Don’t get better, get resilient is from that video from Kelly Sheffield. I’m always looking for something to move my needle and pass it on to them. I think we can expect more from each other and hold each other accountable for more. I think where most people fall short is they reach one goal and they’ve made it and then they stop. For me, I don’t know why I’m wired that way but it’s a blessing and a curse. I don’t want people to think, and I’m sure my players would agree, it’s not easy here. This is not like we’ve won from one year to the next, it’s been a lot of trials and tribulations, pushing myself and the girls. And I think that’s something that young coaches need to understand. I’m way better today than I was 15 years ago and I hope that in however long I do this, I’m better then! You personally have to get better. That thirst for knowledge.

Rosenthal talked for another 20 minutes after the recorder was turned off, bemoaning the negative feedback he's witnessing at the National Qualifiers from so many coaches and wishing they would understand more that we do in fact, learn from our mistakes. That no one is perfect and that half of the teams win, and half do not. He shakes his head while talking about it.

As we left, he was introducing us to a member of the Athletic Staff. As we were saying goodbye, the phrase "Coach Rosenthal" was used in a sentence. He shook his head and closed his eyes smiling...

"It's just Brandon..."